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Author Topic: Air Ride Tech - Just some things I've learned.  (Read 15890 times)

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Offline AntiBling

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Air Ride Tech - Just some things I've learned.
« on: December 28, 2006 1:53 am »
Part 1 - Front And Rear suspension

Well here's my attempt at a Tech article.  Since I learned most of what I know about air ride suspension off of sport trucker sites, I figured I would save people the trouble of sorting through allt he bull I found.  I don't claim to be an expert on the subject, but I'm just sharing what I've learned so far.  

First I'll say this, TAKE PLENTY OF BASE MEASUREMENTS.

Here are some of the setups to stay away from:

Air-Over-Monoleaf - This setup you take all but one spring out, and run airbags over the axle.  While in theory this should be ok, the major problem is axle wrap and the high potential of snapping the spring.

2-Link - This setup, you bolt bars to the spring perches like you would a leaf spring, and then to a mount on the frame.  The problem with this setup is it eliminates independent wheel travel, and puts stress on everything when there is a need for independent wheel movement.

Reverse setups - Some people, for whatever reason they have, mainly clearances forward of the axle and not wanting to deal with them, will mount the bars running back behind the axle.  Problems with this, wheel hop, and its a good way to pull your driveshaft out.  

Now since most of you don't care about having a flashy setup to show off, a 4-link will work just fine for you.

For those that don't know what a 4-link is, it is a 4 bar setup, with 2 bars on each side mounted parallel of each other, a parallel 4-link setup, or a triangulated 4-link, where there are two bars run outside the frame, and 2 inside the frame that are triangulated.

With a parallel setup you need to run panhard bar, or a watts link to limit side to side movement of the axle.

With a triangulated setup, the triangulation of the two inner bars is to limit the side to side movement of the axle without the use of a panhard or watts link.

One thing I learned and wish I did right away with my axle, I kept the axle centered when I took off the old suspension and put on the new stuff, but what I should've done is got the axle at ride height, set my pinion angle, and welded it to the frame, then set my links and panhard.  It would've saved me the time of adjusting the axle with everything on.

Now onto the front.  

Depending on how low you want to go, you may want drop spindles.  Some guys get away with stock spindles, some don't, its a crap-shoot.

Cups - Basically if you have to build your own, you want it to be about the outside diameter of your stock springs for the tubing, then you need to secure it to the spring mount, most setups if you have the shock running through the spring, they run some all-thread up through the hole for the shock mount.  Or if your upper a-arm doesnt bolt to your spring cup, you could cut it off all together and make a mount out of a plate.

For mounting to the lower a-arm, you could make a cup, or make a plate, don't let anyone tell you a floating setup (where the bag is unsecured on either end) is safe.  You'll get a blown bag.  

That's it for Part 1, Part 2 I'll get to the cutting, and the air system setup.

Offline Eyeball

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RE: Air Ride Tech - Just some things I
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2006 6:04 am »
Good info, thanks.
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henryj1951 HAMB

Offline Tom

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RE: Air Ride Tech - Just some things I
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2008 1:19 pm »
Thanks for the info.

Did you do part 2?? Hooken up air line ect. I couldn't find it.
"A rat rod is a hot rod with poor workmanship". Roger S.

Offline AntiBling

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RE: Air Ride Tech - Just some things I
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2008 6:41 pm »
No I haven't gotten to part 2.  If you got any questions just let me know.  As far as the airlines go I was going to run hydraulic lines back when I worked at the service station.  But now I just went to a big rig repair shop and bought a bunch of airline and fittings.  

Main thing running lines is make sure it isn't rubbing any metal and make sure it isn't close to exhaust.  Your valves are marked which way the flow is supposed to go too so make sure those are put on right.

Offline Tom

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Air Ride Tech - Just some things I've learned.
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2008 2:58 pm »
I have a couple of bags for mock up. ( see pic ) The one on the left will work the best for clearance. Do any of you who have used bags have a preference between the two ??
"A rat rod is a hot rod with poor workmanship". Roger S.

Offline AntiBling

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Air Ride Tech - Just some things I've learned.
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2008 7:36 pm »
Well main thing is what brand they are, and what they're rated for in comparison to what you're putting them on.  

The one on the left looks pretty small and wouldn't give you much lift, and looks like it's designed more for a minitruck.  If it isn't rated to lift enough for your car it will take you a long time to lift and if you're driving down the road and need to air up for a bump you'll appreciate that speed.  

While we're on the subject of speed, you want to make sure you use big enough line and valves if you plan on driving this.  3/8" is a good for somebody that wants to drive.  The air up side you want fast because first you can air up and go right away, second if you're going down the road and there's a bump you can't avoid, you can air up.  Airing down is where you want to regulate so you don't drop down with a huge thud.  

Brands I'd go with, Firestone, Slam Specialties, and Conitech.

Offline Tom

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Air Ride Tech - Just some things I've learned.
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2008 8:43 pm »
Ok Tyrel I must be missing something. Why would I want to air up for a bump while driving?? To get clearance?? I'm only doing the rear of the car, the front will stay coil springs. I'm making what they call a tail drager, and yes I plan to drive just like I have in the past. The frame will not be on the ground when I air down. Right now the car rides great, will I lose the ride factor with bags?? I been told that if you have a gauge you air up to where it rides good and you use that setting from than on.

Hey, thanks for your help, when it come to bags I have no experience!!
"A rat rod is a hot rod with poor workmanship". Roger S.

Offline Eyeball

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Air Ride Tech - Just some things I've learned.
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2008 9:03 pm »
When you order your bags you will know what the aprox. ride height is on them. You can then fab the top and bottom hats to the correct height to give you the stance you want for ride height. The gauge does work well for knowing if you are ready to roll when airing up the system. If you want to save some $'s you can use pneumatic paddle switches instead of solenoids. I got mine from Airlift but I am sure there are others that make them. The down side to them is you have to run the airline to switch.
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henryj1951 HAMB

Offline Tom

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Air Ride Tech - Just some things I've learned.
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2008 9:27 pm »
This is to give an idea of what I talking about. This is a  '40 chevy coustom done in the fifty's. I gona try to be a little lower in the back than this one.
"A rat rod is a hot rod with poor workmanship". Roger S.

Offline AntiBling

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Air Ride Tech - Just some things I've learned.
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2008 9:51 pm »
Do you want to drive it down the road tail draggin or are you gonna set it up so it rides out level?  Airing it up for a bump is so it isn't bottoming out.  Most people who set up their air ride set it up so it still rides low going down the road.  

Another thing to consider is when you're angled back you got still think about rear bumper/sheet metal to watch out for.  

Valves aren't too bad for electric.  I wish I would've bought mine smarter though, I bought all 3/8" valves (8) when I should've bought just the 3/8" for lift and got some 1/4" for dumps.  

You'll want 4 valves since you're just doing the rear.  A lot of people say "I don't need to do that I just want to lift and lower" but you'll have a lot of roll if you do one fill and one dump valve for both bags.  On a corner all the air pressure can switch to one side because of the turning force which gives excessive roll.

Offline Eyeball

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Air Ride Tech - Just some things I've learned.
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2008 10:35 pm »
Quote from: "AntiBling"

You'll want 4 valves since you're just doing the rear.  A lot of people say "I don't need to do that I just want to lift and lower" but you'll have a lot of roll if you do one fill and one dump valve for both bags.  On a corner all the air pressure can switch to one side because of the turning force which gives excessive roll.


I agree. In my '48 I had one control for front and one for rear and I had a ton of roll. I ended up separating the front bags so they worked independently and the rear was still controlled by one but I would have liked to separate it as well.
soaken wet shoes and winkled fingers...
hours and hours
inch at a time...

henryj1951 HAMB

Ryan

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Air Ride Tech - Just some things I've learned.
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2008 12:37 am »
When I did the front of the '58 the first time I bought a load leveler kit with line, gauge/switch panel and compressor.  I set it up so I had one paddle switch for each wheel and I didn't have body roll as they were independent.  You will have no use for a tank if you don't use soleniods as the switches released the air directly into the bags.  Soleniods are faster but they also cost more.  It would also make a big differance if you are using the bags along with a four link to support the weight of the rear or if you are going to do an air over leaf system where you still have the leaf springs (dearched) and use the bags to lift it to ride height.  The bag in your picture, Tom, on the right is the same bag I had on the front of the '58 and is rated at 2600 pounds if I remember. I would say it is overkill for the rear of a car.  Most people use the sleeve-type on the rear and I believe they are also cheaper.  Good luck.

ratfink

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Air Ride Tech - Just some things I've learned.
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2008 3:03 am »
I thought I'd weight in on this myself.  Another important consideration is good shocks. Gas charged adjustable are ideal.
On body roll. Sway bars(front and rear) go a long way, but independent control is better and may be cheaper in the long run.
Tom, as for ride quality, It's hard to beat a well set up air bag system. If Caddy's and Lincoln's use them from the factory that should say something.  Just my two cents. :wink:

Offline Tom

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« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2008 2:28 pm »
Wow.......thanks guys for all the help!!!!

I can see I didn't give enough info. The front end is from an `82 Trans AM with a sway bar. The rear is a 4 link from a `64 Chevell and I had a swaybar I mounted from a Monti Carlo that I want to keep if possible.The frame will NOT be notched. When it's aired out it will be on the snubbers, about 3 in of lift is all I'm looking for ride height.

From what I can tell I'm going to modify the links to get it to set up into the car.

For now a couple more questions.

I hope this doesn't sound dumb, but if I have a gauge do I run an air line to it or is there a sensor you use that send the info to the gauge with wires??

And will the bag on the left work for the rear with about 3 in. of lift??
"A rat rod is a hot rod with poor workmanship". Roger S.

Offline Eyeball

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Air Ride Tech - Just some things I've learned.
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2008 4:07 pm »
soaken wet shoes and winkled fingers...
hours and hours
inch at a time...

henryj1951 HAMB