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Burn Coat?
« on: May 25, 2005 8:48 PM »
Thought I would pass this info along....

Quote
 -   Burn Coat (http://forum.eastwood.com/showthread.php?t=265)

Ultra Al 03-12-2005 10:33 PM

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Burn Coat
 
How many of you do a burn coat over your final clear, (shooting on some straight reducer to flatten and remove orange peel)? ive heard several philosopies on how this is done but i havent tried it yet, how do you do it? Is there any risk of damaging your clear (peeling, crazing, erc:) Thanks in advance, Al

cgoodyear 03-14-2005 02:28 PM

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Burn coat
 
Spraying straight reducer as a final coat sounds like an en-exact science to me. Paint manufactures commonly recommend spraying two wet clear coats reduced as much as 150 to 200% sprayed at 50 psi. A third coat may be applied if sanding of buffing are planned for blending a repair. Some further recommend a mist coat be applied at lower air pressure to aid in basecoat blending.
If you get to the bottom of this one, please post it here so the rest of us will know what's new in the world of finish coating. Tnks CG

Ultra Al 03-14-2005 05:54 PM

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Ive heard its an old painters trick, Im kind of chicken to try it and honestly my final coats have not had much orange peel (knock on wood) using my trusty dedicated clear gun, a Devilbiss GFG Plus w/ 1.3 tip. Ive heard that on a big project like a car it can save a ton of labor to shoot a burn coat making the wet sanding and buffing stages go faster. I have an ol K5 Blazer scheduld for paint is why I ask. AL

cgoodyear 03-15-2005 01:56 PM

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Burn coat
 
A long time auto painter told me to apply the first coat (or coats) of clear reduced at the mininum recommended reduction but for the final coat use the maximum recommended reduction. He claims that it levels better and perhaps this is the effect you're trying to acheive. I've not had any problems with my clear coats.

In any case, if you want to be adventuresome with the straight reducer concept I'd recommend trying it on one of two small painted test panels first and not risk ruining a good paint job.

I say two panels because in order to get a valid comparison you'll have to paint and clear coat both of them but treat only one with the reducer to see if there is a noticeable difference. If you decide to test it let us know how it turns out. CG

Psychoarts 03-16-2005 06:52 PM

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What actually is the cause of Orange peel? Is it one main thing or a combo of things. I get orange peel or a regular basis and don't really know what to change. Any help would be great.

Ultra Al 03-16-2005 08:34 PM

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http://www.sherwin-automotive.com/r..._peel/index.cfm
Here is a link for you Psycho. Better than I can explain it. One thing I have to do is dial my gun in everytime with every coating. I get my distance which for me is the tip of my extended little finger to the tip of my thumb and shoot one trigger pull on a piece of slick surface construction paper taped to the wall. You should get like an oval pattern. Then dial in the fluid tip adjustment until you get as few drops as possible outside the pattern, one full trigger pull, pull and release. I start with the fluid knob out about 2 1/2 turns depending on which gun Im using. AL

51custom 03-17-2005 08:02 PM

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Burn Coat.
 
First let me say, that paint manufactures spend millions of $$ to get the product just right. As a long time painter, you get what you pay for.To get the best results you need the best products, and the best equipment. I know it sounds OLD... but it's true. If you follow the mixing recomedations and a have a good gun setup,along with gun control the end result will amaze you. Good Luck. :D

cgoodyear 03-18-2005 07:29 PM

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Burn coat
 
"51 Custom" It's funny you should mention quality of paint. I've sprayed (less expensive) paint that would run or sag no matter how I mixed it or what I did but on the other hand I've sprayed (more expensive) paint that would flow correctly and not run no matter how much I screwd up.

For those reasons I pay a little more and buy higher quality (more expensive) paints for all my projects.

I guess we get what we pay for. CG

Ultra Al 03-19-2005 11:52 AM

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Have to agree with all that. I shoot the best paint money can buy (and fortunately my local jobber sells PPG and X-otic and can order me HOK) through the best guns money can buy (Sata Iwata Devilbiss). And I get good results. Having said all that, Ive done a bit more research on this burn coat thing, What Im hearing is that after your final wet coat of clear the trick is to clean your gun, crank up the pressure, get about 8 inches from the substrate and mist the whole thing with straight reducer (using urathanes of course) and walk away form it. The claim is that this "burn coat" will help flatten the paint, bring out a better shine, remove any orange peel and if any wet sanding or buffing is even required it will be minimal, thus elimingating the job of extensive buffing which would be a timesaver. Im still reluctant to try this on anything but a test panel, which i will do the next time I paint something. Al

51custom 03-19-2005 04:13 PM

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Burn Coat
 
Hey Al
When ever ya get around to trying it, let us know how ya made out.along with your procedure. Have a good one Jim. PS: We used to do something along that line with the OLD enamel on last coat.....

JER 03-20-2005 09:07 PM

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do all the test panels you want it's not the same as a compleat car. in thought it's a good thing how ever get to close in one spot and see what will happend when the reducer softens the new paint all the way down. what their trying to do is get away from sanding and rubbing. some times it works sometimes it don't. we would do it all the time when blending to melt in the dry ring with laquer. but who is shotting laquer now. the mist coat 1/2 inch of paint in the bottem and fill to the top with reducer then hold high move fast and run out slaming the door behind you. was a old trick for enamal when the tep was high the humidy low. but as stated follow the direction on the can as written(not as amended by how you think)and you will get a nice jop. got to using the stop watch and cup to check Dupont as they state. funny how diferent colors would use a differnt amount of thinner to get the same viscosity. and how little it took to get it to thin. but if you got it right when look out you had a nice one. when you get in trouble differnt things will get you out this is one of those things. but it's best not to get into trouble. :rolleyes:

freerider 04-12-2005 10:13 PM

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burnin in
 
Great discussion on burning in paint. This was a trick that was used as formentioned by one respondent and I have not heard of this method used in quite some time. Yes, the idea was to keep the surface of the paint film open longer in order to "flow" out better and help minimize texture or orange peel. There is a feel to this method just as there is a feel to painting (or any skill a person develops). The problem is that if too much reducer for enamels or thinner for lacquer was applied, the finish would possably run on vertical surfaces and it could haze over on flat surfaces. So although the method is not really recommended these days for various reasons, it can be performed but it does take practice.
It is rare that a painter can have a completely flat finish that for some reason is expected these days when all factory vehicals have some form of texture.
It seems that painters want the glass smooth finish that custom finishes have. Most custom paint jobs are cut and buffed to achieve this look. I say most because I have a different method that is better for the life of the finish and produces a fantastic finish.
Any one can learn the mechanics (basics) of applying paint. It takes skill, practice and an open mind to really develop the art of finish painting.
Good equipment is a real plus but a skilled painter can make almost any decent gun work as long as its not total junk. Its the complete understanding of how paint works that is the other part of the puzzle.As for quality paint products, there are some cheap products but they are designed for a purpose. Example: people who do not want to spend the money on products when the job doesnt require it. Although better quality does not mean a big price tag. There are quality products by lessor known companies that manage to win first place trophys at shows all the time, you just don't relize it. I have worked for a major company and a small company and we buy raw materials from the same suppliers. Products are QC tested just as completely as larger companies. I will refrain from "advertising " my companies name, but I can tell you that its not the products that are the only issue determining the finish. You would be surprised who really produces a product and what label can its in! Its like golf, you can own the best and most expensive clubs made, but its practice, learning and listening that wins the game. Its all in who's swinging the club. Sorry to be long winded but this is my expertese and pashon:cool: