Suedes Car Club
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: racerjohnson on December 24, 2009 7:38 pm
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I know most of us want to build an FED because, well, why not? Its hard to keep an eye out for the key parts when I don't know what to look for. I'll draw up a safer roll bar that doesn't look dumb cuz anything would still be safer than a stock bodied model A going down the strip, ya know?
Cost is important, but lets dream a little and have fun with this:
-98"-120" wheelbase
-Cheater slicks and the cheapest rear wheels that will look right
-19" motorcycle wheels up front
-Stock model A(?) front axle with lotsa holes
-stock A spring, I imagine some leaves could be removed
-one of my Olds motors
-auto tranny cuz I bet the "correct" trannies are unobtainable/cost prohibitive
-9" or Olds rearend
Parts that I'm guessing are owned by people on this board (if they were theoretically available for purchase by me for the project)
-Cheater slicks ($150 ea. 8"x28"x15 from Mooneyes) and chrome steelies :) or 5 spoke mags
-Model A axle, spindles, and spring
-Steering wheel
-Olds engine/trans
-Moon tank ($260 mooneyes)
-master cylinder
-guages
-aluminum "Foot" gas pedal
-steering box
-other misc steering parts except that long steering rod
-Ubolts for front spring
-Wishbones for front suspension
-Ford tie rod ends
parts needed:
-motorcycle wheels and whatever bushings/bearings needed to mate them to ford spindles (I don't know how they did it, but I'm researching)
-front tires
-narrowed rearend w/gears, brakes, etc
-hand pump for fuel ($275 Mooneyes)
-adapter plate for powerglide trans
To be fabbed:
-Frame/roll hoops/spring perch/seat
-steering shaft extension for cowl steer
-sheetmetal
-motor plates/firewall
-seat cover
-a steel nutsack shield :D
-fuel tank mount
-depending on frame design: dropped front axle ala Dukelet the imaginary hippie
-a coolant crossover tube for front of engine
-a push bar
-a pitman arm
-brackets for the bolted in rear axle
-a master cylinder mounting fixture
-hand brake lever
-an awesome green flake paint job with gold and red accents
-a name for the car
Anybody know how they mounted the front wheels, where to look for some possible sources for the front wheels and tires, where to find a narrowed rearend?
I talked to the gentleman from Duluth that owned this car. I'm in the process of getting info from him. This is the frame design (lyndwood) that requires a dropped front axle. This is the wheelbase/tire size proportions I'm thinking.
Anybody have any info/input on this or parts they'd make available for sale for the project?
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Another Lyndwood chassis
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It appears that this chassis design would make it possible to use a stock ford front axle which makes it attractive. Chassis doesn't look bad, either. MMMMMMmmmmm injected Olds.
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Another Lyndwood chassis
I got some info for the individual that owns this car. He goes by "The Shadow" on the HAMB. We too have been gathering together parts the past couple of years to build a traditional FED. One thing that I had wanted were the front spoked wheels. Long story short, The Shadow sent me directions on how they used to make them back in the day. Anyway, our plans for now are a 140"-150" car with a supercharged or injected Hemi (331 cid), or stroker SBC and a chute body rear portion but that is a long way down the road. We are still putting together a frame table so I can build the frame in my garage. I did buy the cockpit frame section from Mark Williams just in case I wanted to have it inspected and of course for safety. The rest of the frame is all straight pieces and pretty easy to fabricate. If you want the directions I have for the front wheels let me know. They utilize Harley Davidson hubs, spokes, and rims and are easily machined to fit on round or square back Ford spindles.
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I'll donate the tie rod/ tie rod ends. I'll make a seat cover for it too out of some metalflake for show and black for go...
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I'll donate the tie rod/ tie rod ends. I'll make a seat cover for it too out of some metalflake for show and black for go...
Thanks Joel, a metalflake seatcover would rock.
How about a moon tank? ;)
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That first picture is Bitchin' Pete! If you want to race, use the 394. It's obviously the most power for your buck over a 324. Before you get too involved in chassis design, look into NHRA rules as I don't belive any of those old chassis designs can pass tech. If you want to race it, you might as well build it to race safely and at any track.
If you are going to run a Powerglide, I believe you have to cut down the transmission bell because of the extended bellhousing on the motor. Otherwise it would be too much stress on the components. We are working on the jigs to do this ourselves.
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I don't think you want to run a 10 gallon tank... I may have a gas pedal for you to borrow too.
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If you want to race, use the 394. It's obviously the most power for your buck over a 324. Before you get too involved in chassis design, look into NHRA rules as I don't belive any of those old chassis designs can pass tech. If you want to race it, you might as well build it to race safely and at any track.
So are the tech rules different for an exhibition event like the Hot Rod Drags or the HAMB Drags than for competition?
Here is the common dilemma with all that chassis stuff:
I do understand the NHRA safety specifications are there for a reason. The specs have blood all over them, ya know? I guess the main idea would be to incorporate most NHRA legal safety features yet not ruin the vintage look/feel. Does that make sense and is that dumb? It is a gray area where wise counsel would be appreciated.
See the example below from a mid/late 60's vintage chassis. I don't like the rest of the chassis compared to the Lyndwoods above, but that roll hoop is safer than the ones above because it protects your head from guardrails if the car overturns. As I understand it is still not legal by today's standards at the 10 second ET. level. If I was able to run this at an exhibition, would you deem it as an acceptably safe design and still look the part on a Lyndwood chassis above?
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I like the short wheelbase Lyndwood on the left, but the roll hoop around the driver on the car on the right. Whaddya think?
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I'm assuming this roll cage is NHRA legal. I wouldn't consider any part of this car acceptable for anything.
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I'm assuming this roll cage is NHRA legal. I wouldn't consider any part of this car acceptable for anything.
Looks like every other HA/GR car I have seen. What is not acceptable about it?
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I should have clarified. "The look" is not acceptable. It's ugly. There must be a way to make it NHRA safe and not ugly. I'm really not looking to run a car at NHRA events, just non-sanctioned stuff for fun, ya know?
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The cockpit cage I bought from Mark Williams is like the one above and is NHRA legal. You do loose some vintage looks by going "legal". But I wanted to be able to have it inspected and be safe depending what speed we wanted to run. Check out www.slingshotdragsters.com they have some good info but their frames are the "ugly" kind. Also look at www.kingchassis.net They claim to have a NHRA legal frame with the old time looks. I know if I hadn't already bought my frame I would have looked into one of their frames.
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I like "The 1963" from the King Chassis site. I agree, the NHRA 18 pt. roll cage looks goofy on a early dragster. I guess I'm not too concerned about safety, and I'd go for a 3 pt. They look cooler.
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I asked the guy from king chassis for pics of the 1963 in 120" and asked if he could build a 1959 chassis with the cage off a 1963. I also asked him where people run those 1963 chassis as they aren't advertised as NHRA legal.
I don't know that "I'm not too concerned about safety" is the right answer for you, my friend, nor anybody else I know. I just wonder how much safety is realistic and how much is "cover their ass" in the NHRA. I'd be curious to hear why they need so many overhead tubes (there is always a particular accident that led to a particular bar being added to the specs).
I just picture instances where for example, a dragster blowing a tire, flipping on its side and catching the edge of a concrete wall right on the drivers head leading to a cage that fully encloses the drivers head vs. a design like the old Chassis Engineering frames with the side bars only.
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I just figured that with the thousands of passes made in the early cars, how many had problems? I'd want a windshield before all of the extra head cage... If i get to drive it I'll wear a full face...
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about 3 years ago at pelican rapids there was a real old guy with an exhaost shop having a auction, he had a olds powered rail from the 60s and I looked at it engine was fairly well built, could not think of a use for it, it proabbly is somewhere in the area, it was just the rail complete no spare parts
his place looked like a time warp museum of old stuff
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Pete I totally agree with you about the looks of your dragster, both esthetically and traditionally. Personally, if I was just building a 'hobby racer' I would like it to be close to the original style. The only problem with that is it seems there are only a couple events you could run one at. It's a tough call. Could you run a traditionally styled dragster at Interstate Dragways in the quarter mile even though the track is NHRA sanctioned? You seem to be doing your homework on this...
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about 3 years ago at pelican rapids there was a real old guy with an exhaost shop having a auction, he had a olds powered rail from the 60s and I looked at it engine was fairly well built, could not think of a use for it, it proabbly is somewhere in the area, it was just the rail complete no spare parts
his place looked like a time warp museum of old stuff
I know of the gentleman who had that shop and my uncle was hot to buy the car and I was right behind him. He was in a bidding war against the other person but let it go to the other guy for around $2800 if I remember correctly. Its hanging on a wall now. That car was called "the Pink Lady" and had a fully balanced and blueprinted olds motor with 6 deuces. It was a NHRA national record holder for a time and is in a Hot Rod mag from back then. It sold while I was in Iraq the first time and I didn't hear about it until after the auction (SHIT!). I was bummed. my uncle said you could set a cup of coffee on the running motor and it didn't move.
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You seem to be doing your homework on this...
Trying to do the homework now while I have the time for when I have the ability to put something together down the road. The days are a bit long at the moment and I need something fresh to think on. I've never looked into dragsters much. . .
To be honest, who has time to run it at more than a couple events a year? Its not much different from a Bonneville car. I'd rather have it look the part and be safe enough to run it once in awhile. Doesn't matter if I need to take it on a roadtrip to another state to go run it, getting out of town with the boys is half the fun. Taking turns blazin' tire down the 660/1320 would be the other half :)
I figured I'd ask that King chassis guy as he'd know where guys are running those non-NHRA cars.
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And then Pete you'll need to build a single axel trailer too.
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And then Pete you'll need to build a single axel trailer too.
That sounds kinda fun, actually. I'm hoping my grandpa will let me pull it with his gold 54 F100. Super tow vehicle. P40 even pinstriped it!
This dream is getting out of control now. . .
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I'd say the hell with it and build it anyways whether it's legal or not. Like Tom said, there are only a few events you could run it at, but the ones you could are the best- Hot Rod Drags, HAMB Drags, Cacklefest, etc... and who says you can't make a middle of the day run out in bumfuck, egypt somewhere?
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and who says you can't make a middle of the day run out in bumfuck, egypt somewhere?
:)
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Here are a couple a sites I love to visit. 60's dragsters are like a piece of art to me.
http://www.mts.net/~red67/
http://www.wediditforlove.com/
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I know I suffer from the same mental condition as some of you. All it takes to forget about one type of car I want to build is a picture of the next car.
Dragster what? :D