Suedes Car Club
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: racerjohnson on December 20, 2009 11:19 am
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Becuase slanted b-pillar and hardtop can both look cool, instead of just choosing one or the other randomly, it occured to me to ask an experienced person a couple things:
1. what are the implications of removing a structural member of the body to overall strength (and if hardtopping it creates problems? any bracing needed somewhere else?), and
2. What does hardtopping vs. slanted B-pillaring the car mean for the builder when it comes time to create window channels, weatherstripping, and all that little stuff that I, at least, don't think of until I'm balls deep in a project?
Anybody know?
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Here's my opinion (that and a quarter, you can call home). (man that is an old pun....most people probably don't know what I'm talking about)...oh well, back to my opinion.
1. As long as you're talking about cars in the 40's through 60's converting to a hardtop should make no real problem structuraly. They are body bolted to heavy framed cars. The only cars that had any type of structural beefing up were convertibles and that didn't happen until the late 50's.
2. Now once you make the decision to convert it to a hardtop you've got a pile of work ahead if you want all side windows to roll up and down. The quarter glasses need to now pivot at the bottom front because they need to fill up a few more inches of space up to the door glass. That's why it was popular to have slide in quarter glasses.
Even with slide in quarter glasses finishing the top of the opening and the belt areas of the quarters and door is going to be a whole crap load of work!
I love 2 and 4 door hardtops of the fifties. But if you look at the true hardtops the thickness of the roof and rear pillars were thin looking. That's what helps give them that streamline look. The sedans of the early 50's had thicker looking roofs and sail areas. That's why it's a little tricky to make them look as sleek as a true hardtop. I think there is nothing cooler than a forward slanted B pillar on any late 30's to early 50's sedans.
Like I said....just my opinion.
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For starters, this is the car that sort of changed my mind... sorry, no slanted b pillars here... I would go for the slide in quarter window rather than the roll-up window.
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1. As long as you're talking about cars in the 40's through 60's converting to a hardtop should make no real problem structuraly. They are body bolted to heavy framed cars. The only cars that had any type of structural beefing up were convertibles and that didn't happen until the late 50's.
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I can't speak for the rest of the industry, but in 1940 Chevy had a heavy X member in the frame of the ragtops.
Joel in the pic you posted you'll note they rounded the top rear of the door, which makes for a more pleasing line.
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I wasn't gonna reply to this cause sometimes too many opinions are just as bad as not enough but I went through this whole thing with my '50 also. At first I wanted to hardtop it. The look is kick ass but as Jake mentioned, a ton of work. I remember seeing a thread on the HAMB of one that Bill Hines (see pic below) did not long ago and the metal work involved was unbeleivable, not to mention the windows and channels as mentioned above. Mine will be chopped, about 5", but retain all the posts and if you asked me chopped shoeboxes should have slanted posts, 10-15 degrees or so. I think it helps the lines flow better from the windshield to the rear window. Don't know if that makes sense but I know that is how I am gonna try and do mine. And I have to agree with Tom, rounded corners always help. BTW - Does anyone know how much the chop is on that brown car? Looks to be only about 3"-4" but it is just enough to give it a distinctive look. Makes you look twice and ask yourself if it is chopped or not.
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[I can't speak for the rest of the industry, but in 1940 Chevy had a heavy X member in the frame of the ragtops.]
Yea, I was thinking about Fords, as usual. They used a Xmember in every thing.
GM had some nice slanted pillars in the '40s though. :)
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Josh- As long as it doesn't end up looking like this, we should be happy.
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oh my. :shock:
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Yeah, what happened there?
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Sadly enough, that's a winfield chop. I'm hoping he just did the front, but it was from a class he did in Canada.
"U-G-L-Y, you don't need no alibi you UGLY!"
Oh, and I think part of the problem was they started with a coupe...
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That's what I was thinkin'. I have a problem chopping a coupe, I like the way they look stock.
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Shoebox coupes are better unchopped but than chopped in my opinion.
Jake is right about the bulky roof and sails compared to the slimmer sleeker lines of a factory hardtop, but Litton's works.
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Makes you look twice and ask yourself if it is chopped or not.
My favorite chops are the ones that make you wonder. . . unless its a model A.
I bounced this opinion off Mr. Winfield and he replied, "If you're gonna chop it, CHOP IT" :) So now you know his opinion. . .
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I personally don't think making the hardtop windows would be so bad to fabricate. Gene Winfield really broke it down well when we chopped Casey's Merc. If you build a jig to curve your bent channels over and make patterns it should be doable with some thought. Either way, the car will look awesome. I do like the chop on the picture Joel posted. If you want, I can try to dig up my notes and pictures of his process.
I would recomend a little reinforcement at the base of the B pillar to keep the quarter panel from wobbleing and eventually cracking the structure.
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Thanks Ryan- I've got pretty much the whole process of both Andreas' chop and the DeRosa chop on my computer- I hope to print off the pictures I have and make a step by step "storyboard" if you will when we chop my shoebox. Why mess with success?
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As the date gets closer, I'd like to invite non-club-members who are interested in the Shoebox chop to stop by and see what's up. We will be chopping it at Driven Customs located at 1212 43rd St. N in the Fargo Industrial Park. The Suedes will be starting the chop Saturday morning, March 27th at 8AM. We'll start with the layout, double check everything, and then kick it off with the ceremonial first cut hopefully by 9 or 9:30. Lunch will be at 12:30, I will be supplying some food, but once it's gone it's gone. BYOB and chair if you plan on staying for a while! We'll also be louvering my '40 hood and Sko will be working on his modified, so there will be plenty going on! Hope to see you there.
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Bring your own eye protection for sure....and ears too if you wish.
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Thanks Ryan- I've got pretty much the whole process of both Andreas' chop and the DeRosa chop on my computer- I hope to print off the pictures I have and make a step by step "storyboard" if you will when we chop my shoebox. Why mess with success?
Is this still a possibility Joel? Would be handy to have everyone on the same page. Pardon the pun.
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Yes I will be creating a "storyboard" of sorts. After reviewing my pics that I have of Andreas' chop, there are some empty spaces but they're pretty self explanatory. I would like everyone to view the "storyboard" as a set of instructions rather than guidelines; I've done my research and I really like the way Andreas chopped his car the best.
Past pun perhaps partially pardoned Pete. Pardon the alliteration....
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Thanks to everyone who stopped by yesterday; Jake you'll be happy to know your silver bullets were put to good use! Weed, what can I say, You da Man! I hope I get to see some of the footage later on... Bobby, Aaron, thanks for stopping by and B.S.ing!
A few from the Uninviteds stopped by too- if you guys are reading this thank you as well!
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Joel, thanks for the event, it was fun. I'm sure your cheeks are sore from smiling all day, you looked pretty stoked... my son Lee, aka as "Bud" who was video taping will be downloading this and later editing for your viewing entertainment. Was good to see all you's again and hope to see all of ya at the next big event...later Weed
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Well, get on it Bud!
I just had to say it...
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Yeah! Thanks for inviting my wife and I. Was tons of fun and good to see the chop in person. Definitely cleared up a few things and gave us some much needed ambition to get going on our '50 again. We stopped back later Sat. evening and checked out the process. Looked f*@%!$g cool as hell. Most everyone was gone but my wife snapped a couple of pics for reference. Tom, the A pillars turned out really nice. Tried to stop in on Sunday but had to get back home to finish up some things. Keep up the great work and process pics. Your gonna have a killer ride when it's done.
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Yeah! Thanks for inviting my wife and I. Was tons of fun and good to see the chop in person. Definitely cleared up a few things and gave us some much needed ambition to get going on our '50 again. We stopped back later Sat. evening and checked out the process. Looked f*@%!$g cool as hell. Most everyone was gone but my wife snapped a couple of pics for reference. Tom, the A pillars turned out really nice. Tried to stop in on Sunday but had to get back home to finish up some things. Keep up the great work and process pics. Your gonna have a killer ride when it's done.
A special thanks to the Schock's as well for dropping by my steering column and wheel! I can't wait to get the dash in there and mount up the steering column and make vroom vroom noises! I'm glad we can be an inspiration to you two- you're both cooler than hell! Thanks again- see you at Devil's Run!
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Joel, I think Bud should have your video ready tonight. We worked in the shop on his 56 last night and got her fired up, so he didnt get alot of editting time...He had to compress the video and speed it up so it would fit on the Vimeo site. So, if you'd like a original longer version P.M. me your address and I'll send you a copy....hope to post the link tonight when we get home...later Weed
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http://vimeo.com/10573248
Here is the link to the video...enjoy
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OK that kicks ass............. favorite parts are Joel gettinng the sawzall stuck in the A pillar and the king of the hill theme.
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awesome
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Great vid. Man....you guys are fast! :)
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Thanks Bud.........er I mean Lee. :wink:
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Outstanding!
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After watching this video again I had a flashback to 1st grade when we were learning how to read...See Tom grind, watch Tim cut, look at Joel smile....
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Thanks Bud! That was cool- I put the link up on the hamb. There's some funny stuff in there! I would like a longer version Weed- Thanks!